come on, man. evolution’s really just another religion, isn’t it?
This time, I’m talking not about my blog but the science. I won’t be filing for tax-exemption any time soon.
A tired argument put forth by some “intelligent design” advocates is that evolution is really just another religion; convenient because the “intelligent design” people can’t compete in the realm of science (or, rather, they haven’t), so they try to compete in the realm of religion — which, in this Christian-dominated society, they are more likely to persuade persons who have been inculcated in Christian (or some other religious) values since birth but who, like me, may not be experts in evolutionary biology.
Part of the article cited above, which was by Mustafa Akyol (a Muslim who testified before the Kansas State Board of Education’s show trial) in NRO (which is not quoted in the original post) deals with evolution as a means of social development, which I won’t deal with, simply because those theories are far less well-worked out (and like many sociological theories, much harder to offer proof of; and that I don’t accept them myself). Akyol’s notion of evolution as an argument or justification for materialism is suspect; but, again, I don’t want to deal with that. The theory of evolution as a biological process deals with neither of these things. I want to focus on evolution as a biological science.
First, from the NRO article:
Of course, ID — like any other scientific theory — stands or falls not according to its political and diplomatic utility, but according to the evidence. So: Is ID true?
There is a huge and growing body of ID literature produced by some of the world’s finest minds, and I won’t attempt even to summarize the overwhelming evidence it presents for design in nature. Yet I think an examination of the main premise behind the current opposition to ID might be helpful.
To see that premise, we first have to note how ID theorists criticize Darwin. They do this by applying his own criterion for falsification. “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications,” said Darwin, “my theory would break down.” ID theorists, such as biochemist Michael J. Behe, apply this criterion to complex biochemical systems such as the bacterial flagellum or blood clotting and explain that they could not have been “formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications” — because they don’t function at all unless they are complete.
What is the Darwinian response to this? Here’s Jerry Coyne again, in The New Republic: “In view of our progress in understanding biochemical evolution, it is simply irrational to say that because we do not completely understand how biochemical pathways evolved, we should give up trying and invoke the intelligent designer.” Note that Coyne is here denying the falsification criterion that Darwin himself acknowledged. According to Darwin, if you demonstrate “that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications,” the theory will break down. According to Coyne, you will only be pointing to a system about which “we do not completely understand how [it] evolved.”
The examples of bacterial flagellum and blood clotting as systems that could not have evolved from scratch without going through a series of minor revisions, therefore disproving Darwin’s original theory, are presented here without evidence.
I found a refutation of that notion here, by Ken Miller of Brown University. It appears in his book Finding Darwin’s God: A Scientist’s Search For Common Ground. Miller presents his notion of how such systems could have developed, citing examples from nature. It’s rather long and technical, and I won’t reprint it here. As I understand it, blood clotting systems develop from proteins in a manner appropriate to the organism’s chemical makeup. As the organism becomes more complex, so too does the clotting system. Organisms naturally ingest other organisms, giving each a different set of proteins to work with; and natural selection does the rest — those with better blood clotting systems live longer, and that biochemistry is passed down through generations.
Miller writes of his explanation:
Can we know for sure that this is how blood clotting (or any other biochemical system) evolved? The strict answer, of course, is we cannot. The best we can hope from our vertebrate ancestors are fossils that preserve bits and pieces of their form and structure, and it might seem that their biochemistry would be lost forever. But that’s not quite true. Today’s organisms are the descendents of that biological (and biochemical) past, and they provide a perfect opportunity to test these ideas.
In other words, we find evidence and then test theories. That’s how science works. Miller goes on:
Even a general scheme, like the one I’ve just presented, leads to a number of very specific predictions, each of which can be tested. First, the scheme itself is based on the use of well-known biochemical clues. For example, most of the enzymes involved in clotting are serine proteases, protein-cutting enzymes so-named because of the presence of a highly reactive serine in their active sites, the business ends of the protein. Now, what organ produces lots of serine proteases? The pancreas, of course, which releases serine proteases to help digest food. The pancreas, as it turns out, shares a common embryonic origin with another organ: the liver. And, not surprisingly, all of the clotting proteases are made in the liver. So, to “get” a masked protease into the serum all we’d need is a gene duplication that is turned on in the pancreas’ “sister” organ. Simple, reasonable, and supported by the evidence.
Next, if the clotting cascade really evolved the way I have suggested, the the clotting enzymes would have to be near-duplicates of a pancreatic enzyme and of each other. As it turns out, they are. Not only is thrombin homologous to trypsin, a pancreatic serine protease, but the 5 clotting proteases (prothrombin and Factors X, IX, XI, and VII) share extensive homology as well. This is consistent, of course, with the notion that they were formed by gene duplication, just as suggested. But there is more to it than that. We could take one organism, humans for example, and construct a branching “tree” based on the relative degrees of similarity and difference between each of the five clotting proteases. Now, if the gene duplications that produced the clotting cascade occurred long ago in an ancestral vertebrate, we should be able to take any other vertebrate and construct a similar tree in which the relationships between the five clotting proteases match the relationships between the human proteases. This is a powerful test for our little scheme because it requires that sequences still undiscovered should match a particular pattern. And, as anyone knows who has followed the work in Doolittle’s lab over the years, it is also a test that evolution passes in one organism after another.
There are many other tests and predictions that can be imposed on the scheme as well, but one of the boldest was made by Doolittle himself more than a decade ago. If the modern fibrinogen gene really was recruited from a duplicated ancestral gene, one that had nothing to do with blood clotting, then we ought to be able to find a fibrinogen-like gene in an animal that does not possess the vertebrate clotting pathway. In other words, we ought to be able to find a non-clotting fibrinogen protein in an invertebrate. That’s a mighty bold prediction, because if it could not be found, it would cast Doolittle’s whole evolutionary scheme into doubt.
Not to worry. In 1990, Xun Yu and Doolittle won their own bet, finding a fibrinogen-like sequence in the sea cucumber, an echinoderm. The vertebrate fibrinogen gene, just like genes for the other proteins of the clotting sequence, was formed by the duplication and modification of pre-existing genes.
Now, it would not be fair, just because we have presented a realistic evolutionary scheme, supported by gene sequences from modern organisms, to suggest that we now know exactly how the clotting system has evolved. That would be making far too much of our limited ability to reconstruct the details of the past. But nonetheless, there is little doubt that we do know enough to develop a plausible and scientifically valid scenario for how it might have evolved. And that scenario makes specific predictions that can be tested and verified against the evidence.
That pesky science thing again. It does what the “intelligent design” advocates have thus far failed to do. The “ID” crowd makes a specific prediction (“Systems are too complex to have evolved, therefore they were ‘intelligently designed’ by a divine designer”), but offers no means to test it against evidence, and at that they offer no evidence, other than your wonderment at the nature of things.
The most egregious part of the NRO article Nathan quotes is this:
Of course, Darwinians have the right to believe in whatever they wish, but it is crucial to unveil that theirs is a subjective faith, not an objective truth, as they have been claiming for more than a century. This unveiling would mark a turning point in the history of Western civilization, by reconciling science and religion and letting people become intellectually fulfilled theists. Moreover, it would mark a turning point in the history of the world, by changing the meaning of “the West” and “Westernization” in the eyes of Muslims. They have been resisting the influx of godlessness from the West for a long time; they would be much less alarmed in the face of a redeemed West.
Phillip E. Johnson once said that the ID debate is about the question whether the U.S. is a nation under God or a nation under Darwin. We Muslims see the latter as a plague; we have no problem with the former. We might have disagreements, but we agree on the most fundamental truth of all — that there really is a God out there, and He is the One to Whom we owe our very life and existence.
Both of these bolded sentences are simply false. No serious scientist can claim that evolution — or any other scientific theory — is an absolute truth. Science makes predictions based on evidence and tests them, and uses the results to make further, refined predictions on future events — which can be tested when new evidence is gathered, and so forth. Evidence evolutionary biologists have is vast. Evidence “intelligent design” advocates have is minimal, if not zero.
Secondly, as to the notion of a conflict between God and science — there simply isn’t one, and evolutionary biologists do not seek to create one through their science. Steven Jay Gould, while reflecting on his trips to the Vatican:
The net of science covers the empirical universe: what is it made of (fact) and why does it work this way (theory). The net of religion extends over questions of moral meaning and value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry (consider, for starters, the magisterium of art and the meaning of beauty). To cite the arch cliches, we get the age of rocks, and religion retains the rock of ages; we study how the heavens go, and they determine how to go to heaven.
There can be (or, rather, there should be) no conflict between evolution and “intelligent design”. The former is science. The latter is not.
MORE: Courtesy of the Commissar, links that specifically address the examples of bacterial flagellum and blood clotting. Also related is this piece at Thoughts from Kansas, Kansas’s favorite Leftie blog.
12.03.2005 @ 20:20
Do you understand the what a “belief system” is? Do you understand the difference and the similarity between “belief system” and “religion”. Until you show some sign of acknowledging those basic concepts, your entire post is dishonest.
I didn’t link you as an example of willful ignorance. I didn’t track back to anything you said to try and highlight your tendency to logical fallacies, epistomological errors, strawman arguments, and basic arrogance. Until you demonstrate some introspection and willingness to have an actual discussion (vice trying to prove how smart and better you are for not having a religion like all those stupid hicks), leave me out of your distorions.
12.04.2005 @ 14:44
Stop crying, man. No one’s religion is being questioned here. The whole point of this is that comparisons of any “belief system” or religion to science are pointless, because it’s an apples-to-oranges comparison. That doesn’t make one any better than the other. And, my own personal belief system has very little to do with it.
Of course, it looks as if you don’t care about any of that; you’d rather cry about being “persecuted”. Which is fine, although, as I said, your religion (or any other specific religion) is not in question here.
12.04.2005 @ 14:46
And one more thing: It’s telling that you offer no example of any “distortions” by me.
12.08.2005 @ 08:31
Macro-evolution is unproven. You quote Gould who himself expressed this very opinion openly and honestly. He was moved to put forward Punctuated Equilibrium since the fossil record and indeed the amount of new information required to form new morphological structures is so great as to preclude any gradualized system. This really shed the light on macro-evolution as the fallacy it is. Gradual, punctuated…. either flavor is good so long as we call it all evolution, it will all smooth over.
Macro Evolution is dead and many excellent scientist with PhD’s who have given great advances to science have said it for some time.
Macro Evolution has had 150 years to prove itself, yet all it can do is speculate on history, come up with wild stories, and produce a bunch of artist conceptions based on one tooth, a jaw, and incomplete skeletons only to be found completely untrue, time after time.
One can wall themselves off in denial all they want to and declare ’superiority’ over the masses, “so they try to compete in the realm of religion — which, in this Christian-dominated society, they are more likely to persuade persons who have been inculcated in Christian (or some other religious) values since birth but who, like me, may not be experts in evolutionary biology”, but this claim does not make it so.
Miller’s answers have been fully responded to and defeated with sound logic. The truth is no one can build an intermediate version of the flagellum. WikiPedia is hardly a fountain of truth without bias. Neither or scientific journals who take the same attitude as you.
Sternberg, a scientist with two PhD’s in evolutionary biology can attest to that from his experience at the Smithsonian along with NCSI’s participation of blackballing him.
Without Mendel – genetic variation understood for the first time using applied math skills, all the hubris of evolutionary biologist would be left flapping in the wind.
Genetic Variation, not macro-evolution is the only proven and known scientific evidence which stands today.
Survivors survive, gee, go figure… natural selection provide a negative mechanism, not a positive growth factor into different species. It can only account for the elimination of species, not the production of new ones. Farmers, animal husbandry has been around since the days Jacob. Creating spotted, larger, smaller, different colored animals in a species is nothing new. 4000 years before Darwin, the Bible showed this to be true. But then, those Christians without Biology are not informed and are easily misled and lied to. The scientist who disagree with macro-evolutionist are the liars and they’re misleading the flock.
There is a reason we have Mendels Law’s as opposed to Darwin’s Theory.
Darwin, neo-Darwinist have not proven macro-evolution in over 150 years. Mendel on the other hand led to the true break throughs in science genetics which we see bearing fruit today.
Macro Evolution is dead… Genetic Variation is alive.
Macro evolution was started by a man who lost his faith, propelled by another who was atheistic and then invented a word, ‘agnostic’ so as not to offend those poor, poor, mislead Christions who are just to dumb to think for themselves.
Go figure Mendel was a dumb Christian…
Go forward to today.
Most higher level universities and research programs are starting to head in a whole new direction, realizing it will take engineers, mathematicians, indeed – computer programmers to understand the full complexity, semantic system of signal processing and codes within the genome, within the cellular walls and outside the walls across all boundaries.
One cannot lift information from an unintelligently undesigned system, transfer it, translate it and then use it in engineering purposes with highly mathematical algorithms and computer modeling unless the information inherant was put there by an intelligent agent in the first place.
It is through comparison and research of intelligently designed organisms that break throughs will be discovered as researchers look more for design in natures creation by a highly scientific mind, that of our Creator.
Those who cling to outdated modes of random mutations and natural selection will be left setting in the dust.
They refuse to acknowledge the future ahead which will improve upon already advanced genetic design techniques in fruits, vegetables, cloning of animals. If indeed such critters and food can be altered, designed, then who indeed designed them? Mankind you say? How? If you were to come from another planet, find a gentically altered version of corn and a regular version how would you recognize that one is designed?
Genes are programmable, programmed to die, programmed to live, programmed to give forth unique properties, programmed to protect, programmed for communication, for duplication, slicing and dicing, repairing and rebirth.
Our whole system exist for us to learn of the great works of our Creator.
“For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse” Rom 1:20
ID theory will itself progress and become more refined, merge with information theory, computational semantic derivative algorithms, functional specified sequences, and recognizable signal processes between sender and receiver.
A whole new paradigm shift is in play with BioEngineering and BioInformatonal theories, logic, reason and future applications breaking out in nano-tech applications from that of LED to engineering information transference of fish design into aerodynamic car design.
This is one of 10 schools who get it…
http://www.ics.uci.edu/community/news/press/view_press?id=35
who received a grant from HHMI.
““There is a revolution underway in biology,†said Arthur Lander, the program’s director and chair of the Department of Developmental and Cell Biology. “UCI can now take a leadership role in providing future biomedical researchers the training needed to take part in this revolution.—
A very telling paragraph follows as to the state of Macro-Evolution and mini-micro-evolution or better stated as Genetic Variation…
“The new field of systems biology, however, takes a more holistic approach, viewing life as composed of complex, engineered systems refined by evolution to carry out specific, difficult tasks.
Please note the confusion, ‘engineered systems’(why? because any system which can communicate across boundaries or physical borders, be recognized as friendly or threat, be transferred across distance and time inherantly leads to an intelligent agent), ‘evolution’ really referring to micro – variations within a system, then back to design, ’specific’ – this would be specific, functional sequence complexity or FSC.
“Systems biologists want to know not just how living things are built, but why they are built that way. ‘What design principles control embryonic development so that it is extremely accurate, exploit rapid cell growth to repair and regenerate tissues but restrain it from becoming cancer, or regulate metabolism so that energy is consumed when it is needed and stored when it is not?’ These are basically engineering questions within the context of biology.
And, as with many engineering questions, one needs mathematics to frame them, and computer power to investigate them.â€
Gee, go figure… leading scientist are starting to get it, starting to throw off the old paradigms and look for ‘design principles’.
The paradigm shift has arrived….
Maybe however since you so much smarter than all th rest of ‘those Christians’ who know nothing about evolutionary biology, you can solve the following null hypotheses put forth in the journal of Theoretical Biology and Medical Modeling by Trever and Abel…
Here is the link:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1208958
Here is just one small quote in the article,
“Reduced uncertainty (misnamed “mutual entropy”) cannot measure prescriptive information (information that specifically informs or instructs). Any sequence that specifically informs us or prescribes how to achieve success inherently contains choice controls. The constraints of physical dynamics are not choice contingent. Prescriptive sequences are called “instructions” and “programs.” They are not merely complex sequences. They are algorithmically complex sequences. They are cybernetic. Random sequences are maximally complex. But they don’t do anything useful. Algorithmic instruction is invariably the key to any kind of sophisticated organization such as we observe in any cell. No method yet exists to quantify “prescriptive information” (cybernetic “instructions”).”
Please share publically with all of us after you have contacted them and shown their hypotheses to be false.
They openly encourage smart individuals such as yourself to do so.
I’ll be looking forward to your evolutinary informed opinion as to how Random or Ordered Sequence Complexities give forth ’self-organiztion’ without prescriptive information to do so.
12.08.2005 @ 10:18
Dude, I was going to respond to you, but I stopped reading after “Macro-evolution is unproven.” Of course it’s not proven. That’s why it’s called a “scientific theory.” No one can “prove” any scientific theory.
As for my “attack” on religious people, I’m one of the few secular defenders on the right you have left. Maybe you should think about that before spout off again.
And one more thing: You gotta punch it up a little, man. No one is going to read, much less respond to, such a long comment.